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Old 09-04-2015, 06:43 AM   #131
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:48 AM   #132
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I admire Isreal, always have, smart, determined group of people for sure. I love capitalism and patriotism and would hold my credentials in both areas up against yours any day of the week. Of course that has nothing to do with this though does it. Leading nuclear scientist by far approve of the deal, but why listen to them? Leaders of the other foreign governments who are part of the deal think it's a good thing, but why listen to them? Let's listen to nitwit conservatives who are skeptical of science and scholars.
It looks like POTUS is kicking the can down the road and the next administration is going to have to deal with the repercussions of this agreement.

Hmm..... A group of nearly 200 retired generals and admirals sent a letter to Congress on Wednesday urging lawmakers to reject the Iran nuclear agreement, which they say threatens national security.

The letter is the latest in a blizzard of missives petitioning Congress either to support or oppose the agreement with Iran, which would lift sanctions if Iran pared back its nuclear program. Letters have come from ad hoc groupings of rabbis, nuclear scientists, arms-control and nonproliferation experts — and now, retired senior military officers, many of whom have worked in the White House during various administrations dating to the 1980s.

“The agreement will enable Iran to become far more dangerous, render the Mideast still more unstable and introduce new threats to American interests as well as our allies,” the letter states.

Wouldn't you think the military folks might have a better idea of what the fuck is really going on over there? I don't know why you put so much credence on nuclear scientists. BTW, wasn't Carter that great liberal POTUS a nuclear engineer?
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:40 PM   #133
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Thanks Obama.......

A Record 94,031,000 Americans Are Not in The Labor Force; Participation Rate Stuck at 38-Year Low for 3rd Straight Month. In August, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the nation’s civilian noninstitutional population, consisting of all people 16 or older who were not in the military or an institution, reached 251,096,000. Of those, 157,065,000 participated in the labor force by either holding a job or actively seeking one.

Over the first five years of Obama’s presidency, the U.S. economy grew more slowly than during any five-year period since just after the end of World War II, averaging less than 1.3 percent per year. If we leave out the sharp recession of 1945-46 following World War II, Obama looks even worse, ranking dead last among all presidents since 1932. No other president since the Great Depression has presided over such a steadily poor rate of economic growth during his first five years in office. This slow growth should not be a surprise in light of the policies this administration has pursued.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/obama...y-than-anyone/

I don't think you can blame Bush for this one...........
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:08 PM   #134
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:14 PM   #135
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Calling the agreement “the most effective means currently available to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons,”
I guess well have to let history decide.......
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:15 PM   #136
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:20 PM   #137
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You have a better option?
Unfortunately, it is a done deal
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Old 09-04-2015, 05:36 PM   #138
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Old 09-04-2015, 06:06 PM   #139
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But do you have a better option? I'm trying to wrap my head around how getting them to open up for inspections and getting rid of their current stockpiles makes them MORE dangerous? I would LOVE to hear you explain it to us.
The best option is NOT to sign the agreement

[B]Here are 21 reasons
The best option is NOT to sign the agreement

Here are 21 reasons…………

1 Though the deal was originally being negotiated to keep Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, in its final form the agreement would allow just that when it sunsets in 10-15 years.
2 This deal will accelerate regional nuclear proliferation. Saudi leaders for instance have said that this deal is worse than the nuclear pact former President Bill Clinton made with North Korea.
3 Israeli Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu said this deal will give Iran “hundreds of billions of dollars to fuel their terror and military regime.”
4 Sanctions relief isn’t tied to Iran complying with the deal, meaning Iran gets massive amounts of relief before they’ve demonstrated strict adherence.
5 And the money can’t be taken back once Iran gets it.
6 That relief can be used to expand Iran’s malign and destabilizing influence in the region that has exacerbated sectarian conflict.
7 The money can also be used to further fund Iran’s terrorist proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, Assad, and Houthis in Yemen.
8 In fact, Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said that Iran will not change its anti-American policy.
9 To enforce the deal, world powers must first know if Iran violated the deal but that is an unclear process that can be delayed for weeks while Iran would be able to hide and obfuscate banned activities.
10 Iran doesn’t have to come clean on its past nuclear activity, leaving world powers little ability to verify future illegal advances.
11 Iran’s foreign minister interprets the deal very differently than the Obama Administration does.
12 For example, he believes that the scale of foreign investments would effectively prevent the world from re-imposing sanctions on Iran, making the “snapback” provision of the deal effectively meaningless.
13 He also said that Iran could deny inspectors access to nuclear and military sites under the deal.
14 He also said that Iran would not be violating the deal if it broke the UN resolution prohibiting the purchase of conventional arms and missiles because the arms embargo is implicitly out of the scope of the nuclear agreement.
15 Even if Iran adheres to the arms embargo, the embargo is lifted in 5 years, giving Iran access not only to conventional arms to further fuel terrorism and their drive for regional dominancy.
16 In 8 years, the missile ban will be removed, allowing Iran to acquire missiles that could carry nuclear payloads.
17 The Obama Administration pushed for the UN to vote on the deal in an attempt to jam Americans and their elected representatives before they’ve even had a chance to review the deal.
18 Iran will be allowed to conduct advanced research and development that will pave the way for centrifuges that are modern and efficient. They will be able to enrich huge amounts of Uranium that will shorten their breakout time for a bomb.
19 The deal also provides sanctions relief to Iranian military leader Qasem Soleimani, leader of the elite Quds force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, who is a designated terrorist who is responsible for the deaths of at least 500 U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
20 On top of that, the deal lifts sanctions on two Iranian atomic scientists who worked on Iran’s illegal nuclear program and a nuclear proliferator who has previously helped smuggle nuclear components.
21 The murderous Syrian President Bashar al-Assad called this deal a “great victory” and congratulated Iran on their achievement.

Here are 10 more………..

If you examine the Iran deal in any detail, you will be horrified as to what is in there. Aside from the nuclear provisions, there is a host of items that betray our allies and give aid, comfort and protection to a sworn enemy of the United States and Israel. The list below comes from nonpartisan, non-ideological explanations of what is in the deal, primarily from the centrist Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the center-left Brookings Institution’s Lawfare project:

1. There is, in fact, a sunset, as Lawfare notes: “For ten years, [at Natanz] Iran’s (limited) enrichment program will continue exclusively with 5,060 active centrifuges, all of the simplest IR-1 model and all operating in Natanz. If any of these break, Iran may replace them with replacements of the same model. All excess and damaged centrifuges and equipment will be stored under continuous monitoring by the IAEA, also at Natanz. During these ten years, Iran can also continue research and development (R&D) enrichment with existing, more advanced centrifuges, but can only continue testing two of each model. For the bulk of these ten years, Iran will also be largely restricted from creating more centrifuges. After eight and a half years, these restrictions begin to lapse.”

2. At Fordow: “For 15 years, no uranium enrichment will take place.” However, since sanctions peel away beginning as early as eight years out, there is no real penalty that can be exacted.

3. The inspection protocol is a farce. Iran has has a total of 24 days to delay inspection. There is also a 50-day period before a joint committee of eight powers, including Iran, must decide whether there is a violation. If sanctions are reimposed, the deal ends. (“The agreement includes a statement that Iran considers a reimposition of sanctions as freeing it from all commitments and restrictions under the deal. In other words, the violation would have to be really big for the Security Council to blow up the agreement and reimpose sanctions,” the Washington Institute’s Robert Satloff explains.)

4. To resolve an inspection dispute, which would almost certainly be the basis for reimposition of sanctions, we need a majority of the group of eight.

5. Satloff explains: “On top of refraining from penalizing Iran for bad behavior, the U.S. and its partners commit to assist Iran to develop in energy, finance, technology and trade. The idea that America and its allies will actually help Iran grow stronger in these areas will sound a discordant note around the Middle East, where the Tehran regime is viewed as the eminence grise behind Bashar Assad’s brutal suppression of his people, the Houthi rebellion against state authority in Yemen, the creeping expansion of radical Shiite influence in Iraq and the activities of some of the most extreme Palestinian terrorist groups.” We, in essence, help Iran to terrorize our allies, including Israel.

In addition, the United States and the European Union must help Iran protect against sabotage to its program (e.g. from Israel or Iranian dissidents). We are now allied with Iran against Israel in this regard.

6. Lawfare explains: “After eight years . . .the EU will terminate all proliferation-related sanctions and the US will terminate or modify sanctions preventing Iran’s acquiring nuclear-related commodities and services (translation: ballistic missiles).” There is no peaceful purpose for ballistic missiles.

7. We cannot sanction Iran for anything else — bombing Israel, for example. Lawfare says: “Crucially, however, the agreement also recognizes that ‘Iran has stated that it will treat such a re-introduction or re-imposition of the sanctions… as grounds to cease performing its commitments under this JCPOA in whole or in part.’ This seems to acknowledge that as long as Iran complies with the deal, the US and EU will likely be very hesitant to impose new sanctions irrespective of other behavior.”

8. Fordow, which the president once said was entirely unnecessary for any peaceful program, gets to keep its centrifuges and they keep spinning. Lawfare notes: “For [15 years], only 1044 IR-1 centrifuges (in six cascades) will remain at Fordow. Two of these cascades will spin without uranium and will be transitioned to stable isotope production. The rest will remain idle.” Even if Iran doesn’t cheat, inspections will lapse (see above) and uranium can then be re-inserted, in a secure underground facility.

9. According to the president’s national security adviser, Susan Rice, Iran can use the $100 billion-plus in funds and send that money to Syria, Hamas or Hezbollah (“We should expect that some portion of that money [coming from sanctions relief] would go to the Iranian military and could potentially be used for the kinds of bad behavior that we have seen in the region up until now”).

10. The detained Americans remain in Iran.

Any one of these reasons should be enough to render the deal entirely unacceptable. Together it is hard to see how people in good faith could conclude this is good for the United States or Israel or the West more generally.
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Old 09-04-2015, 08:52 PM   #140
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Bob....... one more:

How about the fact that a majority of [SIZE="7"]
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